Interview #1: Shelley Karpaty And The Inner World of Meditation
Meditation is an opportunity to become friends with our automatic and habitual thoughts and delve into the inner wisdom and compassion inherent in all human beings.
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1. Writer-Mindfulness Teacher-Mental Health Advocate [@shelleykarpaty]
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Interview #1: Shelley Karpaty and the Inner World of Meditation
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[Rick Barron]: Hi everyone, I'm Rick Barron, your host, and welcome to my podcast, That's
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[Rick Barron]: Life, I Swear. Today I have the pleasure of introducing my very first guest
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[Rick Barron]: to my podcast show. My guest today is Shelly Karpaty. She is a writer, meditation
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[Rick Barron]: teacher, a parent herself. She is also a mentor for parents with neurodivergent
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[Rick Barron]: children. As a certified meditation practitioner, Shelly infiltrates everything
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[Rick Barron]: she touches. leading students at all levels to their intuitive, compassionate
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[Rick Barron]: heart center. As Shelley puts it, she will walk the walk with you, breath
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[Rick Barron]: by breath. Let's jump into this. Shelley, welcome to the show.
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[Shelley]: Thanks Rick, it's really great to be here.
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[Rick Barron]: Oh, it's great to have you as well. You know, when we were preparing for
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[Rick Barron]: this podcast, we discussed various things, but you came up with a very good suggestion,
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[Rick Barron]: and that was you like to open the conversation with a very brief guided meditation
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[Rick Barron]: exercise that would help kick off this discussion, which I think is a great
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[Rick Barron]: idea for the topic that we're gonna cover. So that said, the floor is yours,
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[Rick Barron]: Shelley, so please take it away.
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[Shelley]: Great, thank you so much. So I invite you and the listeners to, if you're driving,
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[Shelley]: don't do this,
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[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
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[Shelley]: a little caveat, but just if you're at home listening, I invite you to take a seat
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[Shelley]: and get comfortable and just slow it down and begin to notice your breath. I
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[Shelley]: invite you to close your eyes if that's comfortable for you. If not... Just
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[Shelley]: take a soft gaze two feet in front of you.
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[Shelley]: Take three cleansing deep breaths.
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[Shelley]: This notifies your body it is now time to be here in this moment.
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[Shelley]: Begin to relax and feel your scalp and your head.
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[Shelley]: relaxing your brow.
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[Shelley]: Unclench your jaw.
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[Shelley]: begin to feel your neck and your spine tall and dignified
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[Shelley]: Relaxing your shoulders down away from your ears.
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[Shelley]: Feeling your arms hang gently. Hands resting on your lap.
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[Shelley]: Feel your belly rise and fall with each breath.
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[Shelley]: as you notice your torso.
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[Shelley]: Feel how your seat is connected to your chair.
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[Shelley]: as you're pulled down by the natural weight of gravity.
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[Shelley]: I can't see it, but it's there supporting me, grounding me.
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[Shelley]: You need to breathe and relax.
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[Shelley]: as you feel your thighs and knees, calves.
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[Shelley]: the feet also connected with the earth.
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[Shelley]: pulled by the natural magic of gravity.
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[Shelley]: as you rest here in this moment with loving awareness of each breath. nourishing
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[Shelley]: you for each moment in this present moment.
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[Shelley]: And now this present.
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[Shelley]: And when you're ready, you can come back into the outward space and join us in
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[Shelley]: our conversation. So gently open your eyes and come back.
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[Rick Barron]: Wow. That's very nice. I, you know, it's not something you just kind of just
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[Rick Barron]: blurt out per se. It was a love your delivery because it really made it very
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[Rick Barron]: soothing to the ear. And it really, at least for me, it put me in a very comfortable
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[Rick Barron]: state of mind. And like I was telling myself, I was thinking like, God, there
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[Rick Barron]: was a point where, uh, almost fell asleep, it was almost too good.
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[Shelley]: Yeah
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[Rick Barron]: No, I mean, I think for the most part, you know, reciting something like that,
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[Rick Barron]: I think is very helpful for people during the course of the day when things just
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[Rick Barron]: get so out of hand that you just kind of take a moment and lower, lower nose.
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[Rick Barron]: I've been there many times, but you know, you want to just take a step back
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[Rick Barron]: and just settle down. Um, the world of meditation, um, I know people have
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[Rick Barron]: so many concepts of what it is, what it entails. But from what you have been
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[Rick Barron]: learning over time, because I know you're a certified practitioner, what
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[Rick Barron]: if you had to tell people today what meditation is, you know, how would you
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[Rick Barron]: explain that to them so they have an understanding of, hey, this isn't all
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[Rick Barron]: quack, if you will. I mean, this is something that really is very, very helpful.
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[Shelley]: Yeah, I would love to describe what meditation is for me. And the lineage that
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[Shelley]: I studied is called Vipassana, which comes directly from the Buddha and Asian ancestors.
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: And it was brought west by people like Jack Kornfield, who's my core teacher,
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[Shelley]: one of my core teachers, and Ram Dass and Sharon Salzberg, which I know we'll
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[Shelley]: get into later.
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[Shelley]: type of meditation brought from the Buddha is a way for us to be comfortable, become
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[Shelley]: comfortable with our incessant thoughts and thinking and egoic minds that run our day,
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[Shelley]: our daily lives, which we certainly need.
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: However, meditation and connecting to our present moment allows us to just soften
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[Shelley]: a little bit. It also
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[Shelley]: and mentally as you become a little bit further along, as you sit further along,
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[Shelley]: things will come up. And so this particular type of meditation, insight meditation,
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[Shelley]: is a really, it can be very therapeutic emotionally as well as physically in some ways
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[Shelley]: because the mind is very powerful.
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[Rick Barron]: Oh, sure. I mean, I'm sure there are those moments when, you know, an event
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[Rick Barron]: or even someone, you know, exasperates you, you know, well, I'm not going to let that
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[Rick Barron]: person rent space in my mind. I'm just going
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[Shelley]: Great.
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[Rick Barron]: to just mute them out if you will. And I think for the most part too, I,
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[Rick Barron]: you know, not that we're talking about this, you know, I think for some people,
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[Rick Barron]: they need to take time to take a step back and realize, you know, in the course
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[Rick Barron]: of a day, is it really worth it to just, uh... stay on something that's
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[Rick Barron]: gonna keep continuing to get me upset and
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[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
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[Rick Barron]: why? You know,
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[Shelley]: Right.
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[Rick Barron]: why let it get to you? You know, you need
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[Shelley]: Yeah.
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[Rick Barron]: to release it and I think in part what you're just describing and even the
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[Rick Barron]: walking us through the meditation uh... opening you know, you realize that there
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[Rick Barron]: are... you're going to encounter a lot of things on the outside of your life
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[Rick Barron]: that are going to just, you know, kind of punch you in the stomach emotionally.
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[Rick Barron]: But then you realize is staying in that state of anger really worth it? Why,
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[Rick Barron]: you know, you have to find a way to get yourself out of that bubble. Um,
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[Rick Barron]: what was the biggest thing that really caught your attention to say the world
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[Rick Barron]: of meditation, understanding how this works, there's an area I think I can
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[Rick Barron]: really dive into and it's going to help me not only master this craft if you
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[Rick Barron]: will, but in turn to help others
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[Shelley]: Yeah,
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[Rick Barron]: in turn.
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[Shelley]: yeah, I think what I realized was that... that it was something that when I realized
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[Shelley]: that my teachers would say like everything is impermanent, everything is going to change
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: from your emotions in that moment, like I just wanted to address like what you
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[Shelley]: were talking about and you know when somebody comes at you and you know or get have
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[Shelley]: such a visceral reaction feeling that the more that we can understand what's
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[Shelley]: happening inside
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: the better response we can we can have to them instead of reacting. So
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[Rick Barron]: Right.
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[Shelley]: we all have these visceral reactions that are basically embodied in our past. So
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[Shelley]: we're bringing all of our past experiences, like as human beings, we're taught to be in
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[Shelley]: the left side of our brain, the fight or flight part of our brain, constantly to
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[Shelley]: protect
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[Rick Barron]: Yes
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[Shelley]: ourselves. And so what happens is when we realize that, oh, that's just my egoic,
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[Shelley]: like, you know, brain that's trying to protect myself because of my past experiences,
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[Shelley]: guess what? So is the other person.
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: So how, if we're both coming at this, you know, experience and interaction with all
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[Shelley]: of our past experiences and our hurts and our fears, then we're not going to get
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[Shelley]: anywhere if we can't fully be present and see the other person for what they're trying
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[Shelley]: to You know, people always say, oh, it has nothing to do with you. The way people
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[Shelley]: treat you has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with them. It
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[Shelley]: doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. However, the meditation can help us become more comfortable
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[Shelley]: with our inner selves and our inner, and creates more love for ourselves so that
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: we can, those things can roll off of us a lot easier and we can have. more understanding
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[Shelley]: for others when they're perhaps not treating us the way that they'd like, we'd
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[Shelley]: like to be treated. And that doesn't
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[Rick Barron]: No.
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[Shelley]: mean not having interactions and conversations about it,
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[Rick Barron]: Hahaha
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[Shelley]: but there's a way to do it that is more thoughtful than outbursts and anger, so
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[Rick Barron]: Yeah,
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[Shelley]: to
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[Rick Barron]: no, those
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[Shelley]: speak.
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[Rick Barron]: are all very, very good points. And that kind of takes me back to when I was,
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[Rick Barron]: you know, before I retired and was working in Silicon Valley, I was in a meeting
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[Rick Barron]: and this one person just started yelling at this person. And the person they
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[Rick Barron]: were yelling at didn't say a word. It just remained very calm. And as a
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[Rick Barron]: person who was doing the yelling, the tone and the pitch started to come down.
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[Rick Barron]: as
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[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
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[Rick Barron]: if this person was letting their silence not let this person get them disrupted.
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[Shelley]: Mm.
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[Rick Barron]: And eventually they explained why they were upset. And the person said, well,
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[Rick Barron]: why didn't you just tell me that? You know, you didn't have to go through all
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[Rick Barron]: of this. But
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[Shelley]: Right.
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[Rick Barron]: let me explain to you why these events happened the way they did. And after
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[Rick Barron]: it was explained, well, the person who was yelling, didn't really have much to
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[Rick Barron]: say. It was almost they felt like they were embarrassed, if you will.
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[Shelley]: Yeah.
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[Rick Barron]: So I think to your point, you know, you have to let the person maybe just
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[Rick Barron]: say what they want, but then try to understand what their feelings are.
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[Rick Barron]: And, you know, in most cases, you don't know what a person's life has been
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[Shelley]: bright.
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[Rick Barron]: prior to you meeting them. So sometimes they have cultivated various emotions
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[Rick Barron]: inside of them that they... carry with them throughout their lives.
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[Shelley]: Exactly. And
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[Rick Barron]: But...
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[Shelley]: bringing that person wanted to in that meeting, you
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[Rick Barron]: Uh-huh.
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[Shelley]: know, the person that was yelling was probably just, they're driven by their,
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[Shelley]: their minds and they weren't connected to their hearts. And what the other person
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[Shelley]: did was create that safe space to be like, look, I'm just going to, I'm just
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[Rick Barron]: Exactly.
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[Shelley]: going to hold space for you until you're ready to get to your heart. Because
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[Shelley]: right now, you're just talking from your head. And that's
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[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
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[Shelley]: really hard to do in business because, you know, it's all about results and ROI. So
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[Shelley]: it's very hard for people to realize like hey if we can all just if we can
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[Shelley]: get in our heart space that's where the truth lies not
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[Rick Barron]: Sure.
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[Shelley]: always necessarily in our in our heads. Yeah sure
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[Rick Barron]: Oh.
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[Shelley]: the truth is that we want to get we want to get you know to point Z but in order
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[Shelley]: to get there if we want other if we want to have support of others and helping
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[Shelley]: us get there you have to leave with heart and you'll get a lot fat and you'll get
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[Shelley]: there a lot faster and a lot easier.
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[Rick Barron]: Oh yeah, absolutely. I was kind of curious. You have done a lot. Just looking
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[Rick Barron]: at your website and your blog and to the audience I would say too, at the
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[Rick Barron]: conclusion of this podcast, I'm going to provide links to Shelly's website
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[Rick Barron]: and blog post and please I invite you to visit it. I have gone through it various
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[Rick Barron]: times and her website's beautiful by the way.
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[Shelley]: Thanks.
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[Rick Barron]: much better than mine.
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[Shelley]: Ha ha ha.
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[Rick Barron]: No, seriously, it's well done, but please do so. I guess my question is do
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[Rick Barron]: you have a core audience that you address or does it matter?
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[Shelley]: Yeah, that's a great question. Well, it depends on what I'm doing. So, you know,
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[Shelley]: when I'm writing, when I'm writing,
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[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
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[Shelley]: I often write about my experiences with meditation and my interactions with people
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[Shelley]: or just part of it, I share, I get very vulnerable and share my journey on this
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[Shelley]: path. When I'm teaching meditation, for instance, it's people of all levels. When
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[Shelley]: I'm out in the field in person, I go over to like... special spas where the guests
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[Shelley]: come and participate in an hour
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[Rick Barron]: Right.
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[Shelley]: sitting. But when I'm working with parents, you know, that's a little bit different
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[Shelley]: as well, but I treat every meditation with the audience in mind and what level they
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[Shelley]: feel comfortable with and how long we're going to work together. So
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[Rick Barron]: Ah, good point.
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[Shelley]: you know, we can get deeper. So, I can lead like for instance that type of meditation
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[Shelley]: that I just led. We could have just sat and done a body scan for a good 30 minutes
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[Shelley]: I could have led us through
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[Rick Barron]: Wow.
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[Shelley]: a body scan for 30 minutes to get us into like very deep relaxation and presence.
00:16:57,073 --> 00:17:02,309
[Rick Barron]: So, do you deal with large groups or do you deal with individuals or is it a
00:17:02,430 --> 00:17:03,232
[Rick Barron]: combination of both?
00:17:03,602 --> 00:17:08,704
[Shelley]: Yeah, it's a combination of both. Absolutely. Yeah, I've gone to I've so like
00:17:08,784 --> 00:17:15,067
[Shelley]: as with as part of my mental health advocacy, I've, I've guided a room full of,
00:17:15,767 --> 00:17:18,829
[Shelley]: I mean, there must have been 150 people in one room,
00:17:18,706 --> 00:17:19,057
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:17:19,729 --> 00:17:24,251
[Shelley]: where I guided us in a meditation, and then that was in person. And then when
00:17:24,291 --> 00:17:30,674
[Shelley]: I'm teaching at the spa, for instance, you know, it's anywhere between two to 12 students.
00:17:31,164 --> 00:17:31,332
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:17:31,655 --> 00:17:36,639
[Shelley]: So, it's more intimate and you can talk. more about it afterwards and explore
00:17:36,719 --> 00:17:44,829
[Shelley]: their experiences. And then online when I'm working with parents, it's more like
00:17:45,349 --> 00:17:50,415
[Shelley]: a smaller intimate group so we can again, also talk about our experiences with
00:17:50,435 --> 00:17:51,437
[Shelley]: how we're feeling.
00:17:52,117 --> 00:17:58,922
[Rick Barron]: Okay. With the groups and the individuals that you've dealt with, and I guess
00:17:58,962 --> 00:18:05,989
[Rick Barron]: without, you know, sharing any names, so to speak, have you ever had an instance
00:18:06,029 --> 00:18:13,375
[Rick Barron]: with a person, for example, that through your guidance and helping them understand
00:18:13,395 --> 00:18:20,305
[Rick Barron]: their inner self, that at the end they said, you know, what you did. was
00:18:20,385 --> 00:18:23,552
[Rick Barron]: so helpful for me. I mean, have you ever had one of those moments where you
00:18:23,593 --> 00:18:26,920
[Rick Barron]: thought, am I really reaching this person? All of a sudden you find out,
00:18:27,201 --> 00:18:30,388
[Rick Barron]: wow, it worked. It helped them.
00:18:31,082 --> 00:18:36,824
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if the student is willing to be relaxed and let me
00:18:36,984 --> 00:18:40,666
[Shelley]: guide them, and if they approach it with honesty
00:18:41,148 --> 00:18:41,295
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:18:41,606 --> 00:18:44,808
[Shelley]: with themselves, then they'll have a better experience. But I've definitely had
00:18:44,848 --> 00:18:48,690
[Shelley]: people where they're like, I just, I'm here because I can't get my mind to stop.
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:51,151
[Shelley]: That's the most common thing that people
00:18:50,973 --> 00:18:51,246
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:18:51,171 --> 00:18:56,173
[Shelley]: come like, I can't get my mind to turn off. And that's one of the most, you know,
00:18:56,213 --> 00:19:02,557
[Shelley]: misconceptions of meditation is that, is it's just it's to blank out your mind and
00:19:02,577 --> 00:19:03,917
[Shelley]: that's not what it's
00:19:03,995 --> 00:19:04,117
[Rick Barron]: Ah.
00:19:04,078 --> 00:19:10,642
[Shelley]: about. And so, you know, sometimes I'll see students like shifting and moving
00:19:10,662 --> 00:19:15,305
[Shelley]: around and I think, oh no, it's not getting through and they're very uncomfortable,
00:19:15,345 --> 00:19:18,367
[Shelley]: but that's part of the process. It's okay to
00:19:18,375 --> 00:19:18,669
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:19:18,407 --> 00:19:23,370
[Shelley]: be uncomfortable. That's the point. It's to reach the edge of being uncomfortable
00:19:23,451 --> 00:19:29,354
[Shelley]: and then saying like, oh, it's okay. Like, and just re like telling yourself that
00:19:29,374 --> 00:19:32,163
[Shelley]: it's okay to be uncomfortable. And comfortable and that you're
00:19:31,965 --> 00:19:33,106
[Rick Barron]: Do
00:19:32,203 --> 00:19:32,646
[Shelley]: safe.
00:19:33,126 --> 00:19:38,730
[Rick Barron]: you ever tell these people beforehand that as we go through this exercise, you might
00:19:38,830 --> 00:19:41,132
[Rick Barron]: feel that emotion, feeling uncomfortable?
00:19:41,738 --> 00:19:48,141
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. And so, what I do with that is I employ, so some of the most
00:19:48,201 --> 00:19:52,923
[Shelley]: common things that happen for people when they're meditating is
00:19:53,009 --> 00:19:55,267
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:19:53,343 --> 00:19:55,784
[Shelley]: analyzing. So, we'll
00:19:55,348 --> 00:19:55,388
[Rick Barron]: Mm.
00:19:55,824 --> 00:20:00,026
[Shelley]: sit there and our thoughts are this is what is all common among all humans. Well,
00:20:00,366 --> 00:20:04,088
[Shelley]: if we're going to close our eyes, we're going to analyze, we're going to plan,
00:20:04,528 --> 00:20:08,490
[Shelley]: we're going to catastrophize for the future, we're going to
00:20:11,912 --> 00:20:19,777
[Shelley]: to be analytical, we're going to be judgmental, and so what I do is I name all
00:20:19,817 --> 00:20:25,741
[Shelley]: of those common things and people often at the end will say, how did you know
00:20:25,841 --> 00:20:32,786
[Shelley]: I was judging? How did you know I was analyzing? And like just naming it releases
00:20:32,866 --> 00:20:35,948
[Shelley]: its tight grip over our mind because
00:20:35,847 --> 00:20:36,141
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:20:36,008 --> 00:20:38,369
[Shelley]: it will evolve. Like so there's a
00:20:41,552 --> 00:20:45,834
[Shelley]: quiet, I'll say, okay, where is your mind gone? Is it
00:20:45,843 --> 00:20:46,116
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:20:45,954 --> 00:20:52,799
[Shelley]: analyzing? Put analyzing on a leaf. Imagine analyzing, putting it on the leaf and
00:20:52,819 --> 00:20:55,100
[Shelley]: letting it float down the river. Just let
00:20:55,078 --> 00:20:55,267
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:20:55,140 --> 00:21:01,484
[Shelley]: it goes away. And then we move through analyzing. And then we gently move through
00:21:01,525 --> 00:21:06,768
[Shelley]: planning. Are you planning? Has your mind moved to planning? Put planning on a leaf
00:21:07,028 --> 00:21:07,268
[Shelley]: and let
00:21:07,177 --> 00:21:09,119
[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
00:21:07,308 --> 00:21:08,829
[Shelley]: it floats down the river.
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:14,708
[Rick Barron]: What could be the reason for why people are afraid to release, if you will?
00:21:14,728 --> 00:21:18,353
[Rick Barron]: Like, you know, just let go of that. Do you ever have someone who just, you
00:21:18,373 --> 00:21:20,196
[Rick Barron]: know, I'm trying but I just can't let it go?
00:21:20,958 --> 00:21:25,908
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. It takes time. You have to be patient with yourself. And,
00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:25,924
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:21:26,088 --> 00:21:30,517
[Shelley]: you know, I think people are really
afraid for those deep emotions to come up.
00:21:31,273 --> 00:21:37,056
[Rick Barron]: I think people, I guess, when they come to you, they're wanting instant gratification,
00:21:37,076 --> 00:21:42,420
[Rick Barron]: like, oh, good, I'm cured now, bye. Yeah,
00:21:39,726 --> 00:21:42,846
[Shelley]: Well, that's American the American way, right?
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:42,640
[Rick Barron]: I know.
00:21:42,846 --> 00:21:48,274
[Shelley]: We all want something for nothing, so...
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
00:21:46,261 --> 00:21:53,985
[Rick Barron]: Oh, no, no. You know, I was, as I was doing some research on you, I came
00:21:54,025 --> 00:21:58,828
[Rick Barron]: across where you created a webinar during the COVID pandemic.
00:21:59,406 --> 00:21:59,613
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:21:59,689 --> 00:22:06,613
[Rick Barron]: And it was called Meditation Journaling, using the power of Enneagram.
00:22:07,063 --> 00:22:07,270
[Shelley]: year.
00:22:07,594 --> 00:22:12,476
[Rick Barron]: What drove you to create this webinar and what is Enneagram?
00:22:12,970 --> 00:22:15,091
[Shelley]: Yeah, oh, it's my favorite. That's one of my
00:22:15,022 --> 00:22:15,347
[Rick Barron]: ha ha
00:22:15,131 --> 00:22:22,354
[Shelley]: favorite things. So yeah, so before the pandemic, I became certified Enneagram
00:22:22,394 --> 00:22:29,137
[Shelley]: coach. And the Enneagram is an ancient tool. It's a personality system that came way
00:22:29,157 --> 00:22:32,699
[Shelley]: before Myers-Briggs, which many people will be familiar with.
00:22:33,025 --> 00:22:33,332
[Rick Barron]: Oh yes.
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:38,762
[Shelley]: It came, yeah, it was way before that. It's actually is derived from the Greek.
00:22:39,282 --> 00:22:40,602
[Shelley]: Ennea means nine.
00:22:43,805 --> 00:22:48,290
[Shelley]: on the Enneagram. There are nine main personality types that we have a little
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:53,837
[Shelley]: bit of all of them in our personalities, but we have one dominant character, their characteristics
00:22:53,857 --> 00:22:55,660
[Shelley]: that make up who we are. And
00:22:55,631 --> 00:22:55,876
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:22:55,740 --> 00:23:03,403
[Shelley]: so, and so when we find out who we are, and characteristics. Often times it can
00:23:03,443 --> 00:23:08,305
[Shelley]: be a little bit nerve-ending because we're like, oh, because it exposes us
00:23:08,979 --> 00:23:09,231
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:23:09,466 --> 00:23:14,868
[Shelley]: with things that we might not be comfortable with. So, I created this class that
00:23:15,769 --> 00:23:22,612
[Shelley]: melds all of them together. So once the students find out what their types are,
00:23:24,753 --> 00:23:25,773
[Shelley]: then we meditate on
00:23:30,429 --> 00:23:30,674
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:23:30,796 --> 00:23:38,380
[Shelley]: journaling prompts. So, for instance the two on the enneagram is also known as the
00:23:38,420 --> 00:23:45,664
[Shelley]: helper and so with the helper I would find words that might be you know might be
00:23:45,704 --> 00:23:52,867
[Shelley]: triggering for that person and I would have them just do some free writing based
00:23:52,907 --> 00:23:54,668
[Shelley]: on those four or five words that go
00:23:54,661 --> 00:23:56,362
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:23:54,688 --> 00:23:56,009
[Shelley]: with the helper. Yeah.
00:23:56,442 --> 00:24:01,605
[Rick Barron]: Now you, you did this during COVID, which is like when COVID was at its
00:24:01,906 --> 00:24:03,046
[Rick Barron]: high pitch or
00:24:03,018 --> 00:24:04,107
[Shelley]: Yeah, yeah, it was
00:24:04,047 --> 00:24:04,207
[Rick Barron]: that
00:24:04,127 --> 00:24:04,308
[Shelley]: at the
00:24:04,267 --> 00:24:04,507
[Rick Barron]: had,
00:24:04,349 --> 00:24:04,873
[Shelley]: beginning.
00:24:05,548 --> 00:24:13,033
[Rick Barron]: yeah, I mean that had to bring in a lot of high emotions because what everyone
00:24:13,073 --> 00:24:14,674
[Rick Barron]: was going through, not
00:24:14,658 --> 00:24:15,008
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:24:14,734 --> 00:24:20,118
[Rick Barron]: knowing why is this happening? When's it going to end? And I'm sure some people
00:24:20,138 --> 00:24:22,160
[Rick Barron]: were wondering, am I going to survive all this?
00:24:22,646 --> 00:24:22,951
[Shelley]: Right.
00:24:23,020 --> 00:24:29,160
[Rick Barron]: So, could you share with us maybe some of the moments you had with some of these
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:35,390
[Rick Barron]: people as, you know, how do I cope with what is happening that
00:24:35,403 --> 00:24:35,710
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:24:35,470 --> 00:24:39,196
[Rick Barron]: I can at least maintain my sanity, if you will?
00:24:39,646 --> 00:24:43,567
[Shelley]: Right, well I think people were just really happy to be together in that
00:24:43,548 --> 00:24:43,716
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:24:43,607 --> 00:24:47,489
[Shelley]: space and because they didn't know one another and because it was on Zoom, it
00:24:47,509 --> 00:24:51,391
[Shelley]: was really challenging for people to feel safe enough to say like, hey, this
00:24:51,411 --> 00:24:55,433
[Shelley]: is coming up for me. Because it's, you know, while it's kind of like we became
00:24:55,493 --> 00:24:58,674
[Shelley]: our own therapists, you know, with our writing.
00:24:59,186 --> 00:24:59,291
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:24:59,235 --> 00:25:04,317
[Shelley]: And so we didn't really, people didn't really share like what was coming up for them
00:25:04,337 --> 00:25:08,499
[Shelley]: because they didn't know one another. Now, if this was, if this was an in-person,
00:25:08,619 --> 00:25:11,982
[Shelley]: you know, long session that I was running with a small
00:25:11,825 --> 00:25:12,009
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:25:12,002 --> 00:25:17,908
[Shelley]: group of women or men or combined who knew one another, then I think it would
00:25:17,928 --> 00:25:22,392
[Shelley]: have been a little bit different. But it is a personal excavation journey.
00:25:22,757 --> 00:25:29,703
[Rick Barron]: Right. But what did you learn about yourself when you were doing this webinar?
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:30,667
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:25:30,364 --> 00:25:38,151
[Rick Barron]: What did you find that as a result of doing this, you learned other aspects about
00:25:38,211 --> 00:25:43,716
[Rick Barron]: your personality or how you work in this world of meditation?
00:25:44,362 --> 00:25:50,164
[Shelley]: Well, I think the universal theme throughout all of it is that everybody wants
00:25:50,224 --> 00:25:51,385
[Shelley]: to be seen
00:25:51,966 --> 00:25:52,239
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:25:52,065 --> 00:25:53,906
[Shelley]: and heard and validated.
00:25:54,632 --> 00:25:54,863
[Rick Barron]: Hmm.
00:25:55,707 --> 00:26:03,470
[Shelley]: And while there may be certain characteristics that come up in each of these types that might
00:26:03,490 --> 00:26:11,494
[Shelley]: be unnerving to realize, it doesn't mean that it's set in stone. And it doesn't
00:26:11,514 --> 00:26:14,940
[Shelley]: mean that you can't work with it and it's not malleable. It's just
00:26:14,767 --> 00:26:15,055
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,314
[Shelley]: taking the willingness to look at it.
00:26:18,477 --> 00:26:23,940
[Rick Barron]: Yeah, I think you said the word validation. I think that's what people want
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,941
[Rick Barron]: today. You know, they want to say, hey, I'm okay. And everything is hunky
00:26:26,961 --> 00:26:32,925
[Rick Barron]: dory. And I think for many people, they're willing to say, look, I came to you
00:26:32,965 --> 00:26:39,929
[Rick Barron]: for help. So let's have a constructive discussion. And then you have some people who
00:26:40,129 --> 00:26:44,371
[Rick Barron]: they want to come, but they're just, this won't open up to you. And that,
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:44,468
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:26:44,391 --> 00:26:48,594
[Rick Barron]: have you ever had those instances where like, You know, I can only go so far
00:26:48,614 --> 00:26:53,371
[Rick Barron]: with this person, but they're just not wanting to step out of their zone,
00:26:53,391 --> 00:26:53,832
[Rick Barron]: if you will.
00:26:54,582 --> 00:26:59,244
[Shelley]: Yeah, I mean that often happens when I'm just teaching somebody just for
00:26:59,089 --> 00:26:59,273
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:26:59,264 --> 00:27:06,067
[Shelley]: the day, like at the spa. I can tell that they couldn't get there and every sitting
00:27:06,127 --> 00:27:13,790
[Shelley]: is different. And I have to say, I'm not a therapist, so I have to support them
00:27:13,851 --> 00:27:18,493
[Shelley]: and I like to reframe questions that they might have because
00:27:18,313 --> 00:27:18,558
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:27:18,533 --> 00:27:24,496
[Shelley]: everybody actually has the answers within themselves. So really it's about answers.
00:27:24,496 --> 00:27:28,502
[Shelley]: answering people's questions with their own questions so that they can get to
00:27:28,542 --> 00:27:29,944
[Shelley]: their own answer.
00:27:29,805 --> 00:27:35,888
[Rick Barron]: Right. Now on your website, excuse me, you called out that you're a certified
00:27:36,509 --> 00:27:41,592
[Rick Barron]: meditation practitioner. How did you get into getting that certification?
00:27:41,632 --> 00:27:45,394
[Rick Barron]: What was involved in the time duration and just
00:27:45,367 --> 00:27:45,678
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:27:45,434 --> 00:27:48,376
[Rick Barron]: having to go through all this exercise to get to the point of where you are
00:27:48,416 --> 00:27:48,696
[Rick Barron]: today?
00:27:49,258 --> 00:27:54,120
[Shelley]: Yeah, well it was, so I knew the teachers because I had sat with them before
00:27:54,180 --> 00:27:55,901
[Shelley]: Jack Kornfield. I had sat with him
00:27:55,869 --> 00:27:56,079
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:27:55,921 --> 00:28:04,365
[Shelley]: in person on Maui where I attended various Ram Dass meditation retreats with some
00:28:04,391 --> 00:28:04,622
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:28:04,545 --> 00:28:11,148
[Shelley]: really amazing teachers. And so I decided I would enroll with Jack's program
00:28:11,168 --> 00:28:16,210
[Shelley]: which was part of Sounds True, which is a spiritual publishing house. So, Jack Kornfield
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:21,893
[Shelley]: and Tar Brock are the main teachers. It was an application process so I had to write
00:28:21,953 --> 00:28:28,218
[Shelley]: essays, I had to get references, I had to be accepted into the program and it
00:28:28,238 --> 00:28:30,239
[Shelley]: was about 10 hours a week
00:28:31,045 --> 00:28:31,171
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:38,705
[Shelley]: with an online cohort, some live, some recordings, experiences and it was a really
00:28:38,865 --> 00:28:45,909
[Shelley]: beautiful experience over the two years. I also had to create classes and like
00:28:45,929 --> 00:28:45,949
[Shelley]: a
00:28:49,252 --> 00:28:51,494
[Shelley]: in each practicum that
00:28:51,528 --> 00:28:51,780
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:28:51,554 --> 00:28:58,182
[Shelley]: I did. And yeah, and then I had to do somewhat of a test. I had a mentor that
00:28:58,222 --> 00:29:01,086
[Shelley]: had to walk me through tests and things like that. So
00:29:00,973 --> 00:29:01,836
[Rick Barron]: Yeah, so this wasn't
00:29:01,627 --> 00:29:02,007
[Shelley]: yeah.
00:29:01,856 --> 00:29:03,603
[Rick Barron]: a walk in the park, was it? It
00:29:03,609 --> 00:29:03,929
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:29:03,623 --> 00:29:06,152
[Rick Barron]: was, yeah, a lot of effort to put into this. That's great.
00:29:05,912 --> 00:29:06,973
[Shelley]: It was. Yeah.
00:29:09,877 --> 00:29:13,818
[Rick Barron]: As I was doing my research, I found out that, and maybe you've touched on
00:29:13,838 --> 00:29:18,761
[Rick Barron]: this already, so excuse me if I'm repeating myself, that meditation can be
00:29:18,861 --> 00:29:22,082
[Rick Barron]: used as a tool for personal growth
00:29:22,570 --> 00:29:22,851
[Shelley]: Yes.
00:29:22,802 --> 00:29:27,544
[Rick Barron]: and self-discovery. What does that mean? That's...
00:29:27,690 --> 00:29:34,734
[Shelley]: Yeah, well, I think as you get further along in your, in the insight meditation path,
00:29:34,781 --> 00:29:34,991
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:29:35,994 --> 00:29:44,399
[Shelley]: like I was saying earlier about like identifying your thoughts into, like identifying
00:29:44,419 --> 00:29:50,323
[Shelley]: those thoughts, whether they're analyzing or planning, or even, you know, as you get
00:29:50,383 --> 00:29:56,767
[Shelley]: quieter, and if you do need to go through... You need to go through something
00:29:56,807 --> 00:30:04,575
[Shelley]: that's bothering you. The quieter you become, the more you can hear. Because
00:30:05,316 --> 00:30:10,381
[Shelley]: the quieter you become, you can hear what your heart has to say instead of your
00:30:10,641 --> 00:30:11,862
[Shelley]: egoic mind, which
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:12,123
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:30:11,943 --> 00:30:14,225
[Shelley]: is protecting you all the time.
00:30:15,409 --> 00:30:21,210
[Rick Barron]: That's interesting. I notice you keep going back, worse to the effect, you
00:30:21,230 --> 00:30:24,552
[Rick Barron]: know, like what Lachie just said, you know, the quieter you get, the more you
00:30:24,592 --> 00:30:32,754
[Rick Barron]: listen to your heart and not your mind. Is it the heart because it's more
00:30:32,794 --> 00:30:35,115
[Rick Barron]: of emotional state of mind that
00:30:34,731 --> 00:30:35,016
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:30:35,475 --> 00:30:39,296
[Rick Barron]: you want to go in that direction rather than, well, this is what I'm thinking,
00:30:39,556 --> 00:30:39,716
[Rick Barron]: you know.
00:30:40,246 --> 00:30:44,488
[Shelley]: Yeah, absolutely. Like in the Enneagram, for instance, we have three, what's called
00:30:44,528 --> 00:30:46,148
[Shelley]: three centers of intelligence,
00:30:46,672 --> 00:30:46,798
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:30:46,869 --> 00:30:51,951
[Shelley]: the head, the heart, and the gut. And so when we meditate, we're able to connect
00:30:51,991 --> 00:30:56,973
[Shelley]: those three centers of intelligence a lot easier and faster. And
00:30:56,914 --> 00:30:57,124
[Rick Barron]: Okay.
00:30:57,634 --> 00:31:03,937
[Shelley]: So the more we do that, the higher intelligence we have with responding to our
00:31:03,977 --> 00:31:10,059
[Shelley]: lives, and in turn opening up, you know, time, some things that happen for me
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,322
[Shelley]: I meditate every day. Time goes by slower.
00:31:13,947 --> 00:31:14,152
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:31:14,562 --> 00:31:20,086
[Shelley]: It's pretty amazing. I can accomplish so much more. My relationships have gotten
00:31:20,126 --> 00:31:25,590
[Shelley]: better in my interactions with people because I'm slowing down. I'm not thinking
00:31:25,630 --> 00:31:28,452
[Shelley]: about what am I gonna say in response to that
00:31:28,472 --> 00:31:28,719
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:31:28,492 --> 00:31:34,876
[Shelley]: person? I'm thinking I'm really listening so I can hear, employing this active listening
00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:40,820
[Shelley]: is only available to us if we understand how to actively listen to ourselves. You know
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:47,404
[Shelley]: the body they say you know the body has a memory and so as we're excavating All
00:31:47,444 --> 00:31:53,769
[Shelley]: of these memories that and thoughts that come up You know we realize after time
00:31:54,249 --> 00:32:00,993
[Shelley]: they change and evolve and You know we know that time you know I know that time
00:32:01,034 --> 00:32:07,478
[Shelley]: doesn't time can heal It doesn't mean we have to like forget about it, but time
00:32:07,518 --> 00:32:19,486
[Shelley]: does heal and some pain, however it's about understanding that and not letting
00:32:19,526 --> 00:32:24,209
[Shelley]: it sit with us in every present moment, like being defensive.
00:32:23,637 --> 00:32:30,620
[Rick Barron]: Oh, absolutely. You know, like when I lost my parents, my mother went before
00:32:30,660 --> 00:32:37,284
[Rick Barron]: my father and my wife and I were taking care of both of them in the final years.
00:32:38,384 --> 00:32:45,448
[Rick Barron]: And oddly enough for me, when my mother passed away, I kind of go into automatic
00:32:45,528 --> 00:32:50,311
[Rick Barron]: mode of, okay, have to deal with the burial, have to deal with taking care of
00:32:50,331 --> 00:32:55,818
[Rick Barron]: my dad, all that. I did the same thing when my father passed away.
00:32:56,414 --> 00:32:56,698
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:32:56,419 --> 00:33:04,084
[Rick Barron]: And I had to deal with so much with their, all of their belongings and the
00:33:04,144 --> 00:33:12,050
[Rick Barron]: family. But long story short, I held everything in. And I guess without even
00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:14,852
[Rick Barron]: realizing it, I wasn't letting my emotions come out.
00:33:15,338 --> 00:33:15,561
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:33:15,772 --> 00:33:23,137
[Rick Barron]: So it was maybe two weeks after we had buried my father. I'm sitting here in
00:33:23,478 --> 00:33:28,461
[Rick Barron]: my den and I'm listening to this piece of music that I had heard before and
00:33:28,481 --> 00:33:33,284
[Rick Barron]: I can't remember the name of the song, but when I heard it, it just, all
00:33:33,304 --> 00:33:36,427
[Rick Barron]: of a sudden it just hit me and I broke down crying. I mean, I'm not ashamed
00:33:36,447 --> 00:33:38,488
[Rick Barron]: to admit it, I actually fell to the floor and cried.
00:33:38,378 --> 00:33:39,250
[Shelley]: Yeah, yeah.
00:33:39,329 --> 00:33:42,391
[Rick Barron]: But I think it's one of those moments where you just, like you say, you have
00:33:42,411 --> 00:33:47,614
[Rick Barron]: to listen to your heart and time will heal all wounds. You just don't know when
00:33:47,654 --> 00:33:48,615
[Rick Barron]: it's going to happen.
00:33:49,058 --> 00:33:49,328
[Shelley]: brain.
00:33:49,435 --> 00:33:53,312
[Rick Barron]: And when that door opens up. you kind of cleanse yourself if you will.
00:33:54,238 --> 00:33:59,640
[Shelley]: Yeah, I think it evolves and thanks for sharing that story that is really beautiful
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:07,344
[Shelley]: and you know grief is something that we all experience as human beings and that
00:34:07,905 --> 00:34:13,555
[Shelley]: we all. experience grief however differently. We
00:34:13,596 --> 00:34:13,848
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:34:13,655 --> 00:34:20,018
[Shelley]: experience grief in our own personal way and you know grief is something that is
00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:27,402
[Shelley]: um it evolves and it doesn't like it doesn't necessarily even go away um it expands
00:34:27,442 --> 00:34:33,104
[Shelley]: and contracts and it comes up sometimes it's like it's it might be a big shape like
00:34:33,164 --> 00:34:37,887
[Shelley]: a like a beach ball and then the next day it might feel small like a you know
00:34:38,067 --> 00:34:40,768
[Shelley]: like a lacrosse ball or something. like that. So
00:34:40,690 --> 00:34:41,026
[Rick Barron]: right.
00:34:41,249 --> 00:34:48,754
[Shelley]: it's just we have we have as human beings we have all of these common emotions
00:34:49,774 --> 00:34:57,960
[Shelley]: that we once we begin to recognize we can allow them to flow a lot easier instead
00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:01,002
[Shelley]: of like pushing that because you were you were holding it together like to be
00:35:01,042 --> 00:35:03,764
[Shelley]: like I got to get this stuff done I have to have to take care of
00:35:03,727 --> 00:35:04,015
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:35:03,784 --> 00:35:06,485
[Shelley]: all these things so you will you know you hold it together
00:35:09,888 --> 00:35:14,594
[Shelley]: is like holding on like with this like tight grip and this is what our brains
00:35:14,614 --> 00:35:20,702
[Shelley]: do we hold on so tight to wait the way things are supposed to be and meditation
00:35:20,742 --> 00:35:23,285
[Shelley]: allows us to release that tight grip
00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:24,101
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:35:24,306 --> 00:35:26,009
[Shelley]: of our lives and our emotions
00:35:26,561 --> 00:35:29,264
[Rick Barron]: Oh yeah, I can tell you I've been there.
00:35:29,931 --> 00:35:30,236
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:35:31,766 --> 00:35:37,172
[Rick Barron]: I think you touched on it a little bit, but what are some of the, like the top
00:35:37,212 --> 00:35:41,236
[Rick Barron]: three, if you will, misconceptions about meditation?
00:35:42,218 --> 00:35:45,921
[Shelley]: Yeah, that it's about getting a blank mind, right?
00:35:45,918 --> 00:35:46,019
[Rick Barron]: Yeah
00:35:46,102 --> 00:35:50,947
[Shelley]: That you're supposed to like just blank out. That there is such a thing as enlightenment,
00:35:51,007 --> 00:35:51,908
[Shelley]: that there's something to
00:35:51,940 --> 00:35:52,250
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:35:51,988 --> 00:35:58,815
[Shelley]: achieve. There's nothing to achieve, except for more love and compassion for yourself.
00:36:00,096 --> 00:36:08,727
[Shelley]: And let's see, what would the third one be? that you can't do it. Everybody can
00:36:08,621 --> 00:36:08,721
[Rick Barron]: Oh
00:36:08,767 --> 00:36:08,907
[Shelley]: do
00:36:08,781 --> 00:36:09,101
[Rick Barron]: really?
00:36:08,987 --> 00:36:10,348
[Shelley]: it. Everybody
00:36:10,123 --> 00:36:10,644
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:36:10,388 --> 00:36:11,889
[Shelley]: can do it. Yeah.
00:36:12,647 --> 00:36:15,171
[Rick Barron]: I'm surprised. I didn't think
00:36:15,091 --> 00:36:15,331
[Shelley]: People
00:36:15,191 --> 00:36:15,452
[Rick Barron]: that would
00:36:15,371 --> 00:36:15,591
[Shelley]: are like,
00:36:15,492 --> 00:36:15,612
[Rick Barron]: be...
00:36:15,671 --> 00:36:17,472
[Shelley]: oh, I just can't do it. It's not true.
00:36:18,377 --> 00:36:24,122
[Rick Barron]: Why is it because they don't believe that it is something that is, hey,
00:36:24,322 --> 00:36:28,386
[Rick Barron]: we have a foundation here. This, if you just listen and listen to your heart,
00:36:28,406 --> 00:36:33,890
[Rick Barron]: as you say, this can help you, but you still don't, wow, that's interesting.
00:36:34,462 --> 00:36:35,862
[Shelley]: It's a practice, that's
00:36:35,872 --> 00:36:36,092
[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
00:36:35,902 --> 00:36:40,965
[Shelley]: the thing. I'm not, I can't say that I'm good at it because it's a practice. Some
00:36:41,005 --> 00:36:46,887
[Shelley]: days my practice is terrible and my mind just keeps, it's incessantly going
00:36:46,907 --> 00:36:47,488
[Shelley]: around.
00:36:48,125 --> 00:36:48,440
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:36:48,408 --> 00:36:55,331
[Shelley]: But sometimes you have to mix it up. So like this summer, I love being outdoors.
00:36:55,471 --> 00:37:01,754
[Shelley]: Sometimes it's, instead of sitting quietly with my mind, with my eyes closed in
00:37:01,794 --> 00:37:02,295
[Shelley]: my house,
00:37:02,045 --> 00:37:02,290
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:37:02,695 --> 00:37:09,120
[Shelley]: I go out and sit by the door. Small by a creek in nature by the trees and instead
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,726
[Shelley]: of closing my eyes I'll keep my eyes just focused on the stream in front of me and
00:37:14,806 --> 00:37:21,520
[Shelley]: I just focus on the sounds around me. sounds to be part of my experience. I listen
00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:26,664
[Shelley]: to the birds, I hear the wind blowing, I hear the trees rustling, I hear the children
00:37:26,704 --> 00:37:33,869
[Shelley]: playing, I hear the water trickling by. That's meditation too because I'm in the
00:37:34,370 --> 00:37:38,233
[Shelley]: present moment and I'm noticing what's right in front
00:37:38,181 --> 00:37:39,021
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:37:38,253 --> 00:37:38,513
[Shelley]: of me.
00:37:39,041 --> 00:37:44,902
[Rick Barron]: And you know, sometimes those moments just happen spontaneously. In case
00:37:44,922 --> 00:37:51,664
[Rick Barron]: in point, I was sitting on my porch last week, just reading a book. And we
00:37:51,704 --> 00:37:57,746
[Rick Barron]: have a fountain on the side of the fence that faces the street. And periodically,
00:37:57,766 --> 00:38:03,188
[Rick Barron]: we know we get birds who will fly down there to drink the water. But as I
00:38:03,208 --> 00:38:06,228
[Rick Barron]: was reading my book, I just happened to look up and I saw this tiny little bird.
00:38:07,345 --> 00:38:10,325
[Rick Barron]: and it looked like he was just, you know, bathing. And then
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:10,535
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:38:10,425 --> 00:38:14,466
[Rick Barron]: all of a sudden, he just started going in a circle and he
00:38:14,453 --> 00:38:14,557
[Shelley]: Oh,
00:38:14,526 --> 00:38:14,947
[Rick Barron]: stopped
00:38:14,577 --> 00:38:14,722
[Shelley]: wow.
00:38:15,967 --> 00:38:17,347
[Rick Barron]: and he went again. And he
00:38:17,330 --> 00:38:19,337
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:38:17,367 --> 00:38:19,008
[Rick Barron]: did it like four times.
00:38:19,357 --> 00:38:19,818
[Shelley]: Wow.
00:38:19,768 --> 00:38:21,088
[Rick Barron]: But just watching that,
00:38:21,303 --> 00:38:21,684
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:38:21,968 --> 00:38:27,630
[Rick Barron]: it just took my mind off of everything that had happened that day. It was just one
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:31,471
[Rick Barron]: of those moments that, you know, there are those moments that just put your
00:38:31,511 --> 00:38:36,692
[Rick Barron]: mind at ease that you don't really need to worry as much as you think you need
00:38:36,732 --> 00:38:36,832
[Rick Barron]: to.
00:38:37,566 --> 00:38:45,036
[Shelley]: No, exactly. Yeah, and we're all, the more that we realize that, the more
00:38:45,926 --> 00:38:46,110
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:38:46,839 --> 00:38:49,703
[Shelley]: everything will be okay. Everything
00:38:49,513 --> 00:38:49,713
[Rick Barron]: So, you
00:38:49,723 --> 00:38:49,843
[Shelley]: will
00:38:49,733 --> 00:38:50,153
[Rick Barron]: mentioned
00:38:49,883 --> 00:38:50,725
[Shelley]: be okay in the ball.
00:38:51,453 --> 00:38:57,775
[Rick Barron]: some influencers to me that you asked me to look up on. And one was Ram Doss,
00:38:58,095 --> 00:39:04,737
[Rick Barron]: Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, gosh, forgive me, I forget the other one. But
00:39:05,497 --> 00:39:12,180
[Rick Barron]: of these influencers, I'm sure they all had their pluses and minuses, but
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,180
[Rick Barron]: which one really stood out the most with you and why?
00:39:16,054 --> 00:39:22,777
[Shelley]: Well, my entry, a few different entry points into this world of
00:39:22,728 --> 00:39:22,959
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:39:23,777 --> 00:39:30,120
[Shelley]: meditation. The first one I have to mention is Wayne Dyer because he was really
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,802
[Shelley]: instrumental to me when I first became a parent and my son was two years old
00:39:35,378 --> 00:39:35,481
[Rick Barron]: Hmm
00:39:35,423 --> 00:39:43,186
[Shelley]: and I would wake at 3am and I would turn on the TV to PBS for some reason and this
00:39:43,226 --> 00:39:44,627
[Shelley]: is like before all the streaming.
00:39:45,513 --> 00:39:45,903
[Rick Barron]: Hahaha.
00:39:46,008 --> 00:39:50,810
[Shelley]: And I turned to PBS and Wayne would be walking the stage talking about the power
00:39:50,850 --> 00:39:52,311
[Shelley]: of intention. And
00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:52,527
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:39:52,391 --> 00:39:56,733
[Shelley]: so that was like an amazing entry point. And then I would say about 10 years
00:39:56,793 --> 00:40:02,456
[Shelley]: later, I was invited to go on my first Ram Dass retreat. And of course, Ram
00:40:02,476 --> 00:40:06,298
[Shelley]: Dass is like, he's like the father of all these teachers that came that pretty
00:40:06,338 --> 00:40:10,981
[Shelley]: much came after like, Wayne was, Ram Dass was Wayne's teacher at one point.
00:40:11,517 --> 00:40:11,702
[Rick Barron]: Huh?
00:40:12,678 --> 00:40:22,143
[Shelley]: So in any case, Ram Dass is an American yogi who was a Harvard psychology professor.
00:40:22,243 --> 00:40:28,106
[Shelley]: His name was originally Richard Alpert. He was a Harvard psychology professor and Stanford
00:40:28,146 --> 00:40:28,786
[Shelley]: graduate.
00:40:29,041 --> 00:40:29,266
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:40:29,887 --> 00:40:38,912
[Shelley]: And he found his way into his mind through experimenting with LSD in the late
00:40:38,972 --> 00:40:47,188
[Shelley]: 60s, along with his... friend and partner of psychology at Harvard, Timothy Leary.
00:40:47,828 --> 00:40:52,550
[Shelley]: But what he realized was like, how do I get to this euphoric place without using
00:40:52,590 --> 00:40:53,971
[Shelley]: drugs? And
00:40:53,890 --> 00:40:53,991
[Rick Barron]: UGH
00:40:54,931 --> 00:41:01,274
[Shelley]: so he went to India and found his
guru, Neem Kurali Baba, and the rest is history.
00:41:01,294 --> 00:41:04,156
[Shelley]: And he wrote the book called, Be Here Now, which is
00:41:04,573 --> 00:41:04,783
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:41:04,976 --> 00:41:10,699
[Shelley]: instrumental to many people's lives, in the counterculture movement and still today.
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:19,663
[Shelley]: sat with Ram Dass on Maui about five times with him and after, unfortunately, after
00:41:19,683 --> 00:41:24,085
[Shelley]: he had his stroke, so he was stroked, he was called that he was stroked and he was
00:41:24,125 --> 00:41:28,027
[Shelley]: confined to a wheelchair in Maui the last like, I guess, 10, 15 years of his
00:41:28,087 --> 00:41:28,847
[Shelley]: life. He
00:41:28,861 --> 00:41:29,008
[Rick Barron]: Wow.
00:41:28,887 --> 00:41:35,466
[Shelley]: just passed like four years ago, about four years ago and... And so I was really
00:41:35,506 --> 00:41:41,129
[Shelley]: fortunate enough to meet him and talk with him a little bit and also meet other
00:41:41,169 --> 00:41:44,490
[Shelley]: teachers that like Jack Kornfield and Sharon Salzberg.
00:41:44,713 --> 00:41:45,070
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:53,614
[Shelley]: So he really leaves psychology and spirituality and that is, that's my thing.
00:41:54,715 --> 00:41:59,497
[Shelley]: I love those two points that come together.
00:42:00,134 --> 00:42:00,323
[Rick Barron]: Hmm
00:42:00,638 --> 00:42:04,181
[Shelley]: I could go on and talk about him forever, but because he's so special.
00:42:04,317 --> 00:42:09,198
[Rick Barron]: Well, feel free to. I mean, now I was, as I was sharing with the audience,
00:42:09,218 --> 00:42:15,160
[Rick Barron]: and again, I encouraged them to go visit your website. I was looking around
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,821
[Rick Barron]: and I came across something and I don't want to give it away, but it started
00:42:19,841 --> 00:42:22,602
[Rick Barron]: off the saying that meditation is an opportunity.
00:42:23,246 --> 00:42:23,497
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:42:23,442 --> 00:42:27,803
[Rick Barron]: And when I read the words, I thought, oh, that's lovely. I was wondering
00:42:27,823 --> 00:42:31,384
[Rick Barron]: if you could read that or recite it to the audience.
00:42:31,718 --> 00:42:32,419
[Shelley]: Oh yeah.
00:42:32,141 --> 00:42:33,122
[Rick Barron]: if you have
00:42:34,221 --> 00:42:34,962
[Shelley]: Yeah. I'm
00:42:34,804 --> 00:42:35,285
[Rick Barron]: the website
00:42:34,982 --> 00:42:36,524
[Shelley]: just,
00:42:35,325 --> 00:42:36,366
[Rick Barron]: up in front of you by chance.
00:42:36,544 --> 00:42:37,125
[Shelley]: I'm going to
00:42:37,087 --> 00:42:37,188
[Rick Barron]: I'll
00:42:37,165 --> 00:42:37,405
[Shelley]: do
00:42:37,208 --> 00:42:37,408
[Rick Barron]: give you
00:42:37,425 --> 00:42:37,605
[Shelley]: that.
00:42:37,448 --> 00:42:37,989
[Rick Barron]: a minute there.
00:42:37,765 --> 00:42:38,126
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:42:39,110 --> 00:42:39,491
[Rick Barron]: But
00:42:39,327 --> 00:42:40,789
[Shelley]: Um, yeah. It's about
00:42:40,772 --> 00:42:40,872
[Rick Barron]: if.
00:42:40,909 --> 00:42:43,212
[Shelley]: attention and intention. Yeah.
00:42:43,331 --> 00:42:43,596
[Rick Barron]: Okay.
00:42:45,518 --> 00:42:51,802
[Shelley]: Attention is focused awareness, but intention is awareness given a purpose.
00:42:52,233 --> 00:42:52,443
[Rick Barron]: Hmm.
00:42:52,282 --> 00:42:59,207
[Shelley]: And so my purpose is to clarify your attention and intention, bringing self-awareness
00:42:59,687 --> 00:43:03,550
[Shelley]: through meditation to improve your relationships
00:43:03,878 --> 00:43:04,166
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:43:04,270 --> 00:43:08,993
[Shelley]: and to clarify your communication to express your reality.
00:43:10,819 --> 00:43:16,555
[Rick Barron]: Okay, now... Could I ask you to read that to the audience? Because I really
00:43:16,595 --> 00:43:19,717
[Rick Barron]: think that, again, I think this is a lovely passage. And I think they would
00:43:19,757 --> 00:43:23,200
[Rick Barron]: love to hear it if you have it in front of you. Or if not, I could read it
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:23,620
[Rick Barron]: for you.
00:43:24,018 --> 00:43:27,084
[Shelley]: Oh, is that the one that I just read or was there a different one?
00:43:27,249 --> 00:43:30,773
[Rick Barron]: Well, you had another one that where you called out, you just had updated
00:43:30,793 --> 00:43:38,001
[Rick Barron]: your website and it started off where meditation is an opportunity to become
00:43:38,062 --> 00:43:39,423
[Rick Barron]: friends, but it goes
00:43:39,374 --> 00:43:39,574
[Shelley]: Oh,
00:43:39,543 --> 00:43:39,984
[Rick Barron]: on after
00:43:39,894 --> 00:43:40,434
[Shelley]: yes.
00:43:40,004 --> 00:43:40,324
[Rick Barron]: that.
00:43:40,854 --> 00:43:45,857
[Shelley]: Thank you. Yes, I have that one up. Okay. Meditation is an opportunity to become
00:43:45,897 --> 00:43:51,200
[Shelley]: friends with our automatic and habitual thoughts and delve into the inner wisdom and
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:55,963
[Shelley]: compassion inherent in all human beings. This practice
00:43:55,335 --> 00:43:55,587
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:43:56,403 --> 00:44:02,487
[Shelley]: transforms your relationships with yourself and others over time. And for parents,
00:44:02,567 --> 00:44:06,469
[Shelley]: it can particularly strengthen their relationships with their children.
00:44:08,409 --> 00:44:10,271
[Rick Barron]: Yeah, that's very pretty.
00:44:13,475 --> 00:44:17,299
[Rick Barron]: What motivated you to write that passage? Because I'm sure you put a lot of
00:44:17,359 --> 00:44:18,320
[Rick Barron]: thought into this.
00:44:18,819 --> 00:44:25,948
[Shelley]: Yeah. Well, because it's something that I've had to excavate myself. I do have
00:44:26,048 --> 00:44:29,830
[Shelley]: a child who is neurodivergent
00:44:30,313 --> 00:44:30,477
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:44:31,251 --> 00:44:38,214
[Shelley]: and he's been living with some mental health challenges. He lives with schizophrenia.
00:44:38,234 --> 00:44:45,658
[Shelley]: It's been for eight years now. And I've realized that he is my teacher.
00:44:46,298 --> 00:44:46,482
[Rick Barron]: Mmm.
00:44:47,298 --> 00:44:55,221
[Shelley]: I am not the ruler of him. I am not the control freak. You know, we're here to
00:44:56,342 --> 00:44:59,923
[Shelley]: nurture and keep our children safe and protected. However,
00:44:59,601 --> 00:44:59,785
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:45:00,603 --> 00:45:08,706
[Shelley]: what I've learned from this experience is that he has to have his own journey. He
00:45:08,746 --> 00:45:11,647
[Shelley]: has to have his own, it's his own karma, just
00:45:11,610 --> 00:45:11,876
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:45:11,727 --> 00:45:20,138
[Shelley]: as I'm having my own karma. And we're each individual souls on our own journey. So
00:45:20,198 --> 00:45:26,160
[Shelley]: I'm here to guide, but I'm not here to control. And so it's this letting go that
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,703
[Shelley]: I have to do all the time because it's very easy to stay in fear. And all I can
00:45:31,743 --> 00:45:38,946
[Shelley]: do is change myself. And I so much love to help parents realize that,
00:45:39,261 --> 00:45:39,590
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:45:39,447 --> 00:45:47,310
[Shelley]: that as much as we want our children to be happy and successful, they will do it
00:45:47,590 --> 00:45:54,035
[Shelley]: in their own time and in their own way. and we can't continue to protect them.
00:45:54,415 --> 00:46:01,300
[Shelley]: It's like Cahil Gibran says, your children are not your children. They belong
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:01,981
[Shelley]: to the world.
00:46:02,533 --> 00:46:07,756
[Rick Barron]: Right. So I think you've kind of alluded that you have worked with other
00:46:08,717 --> 00:46:15,822
[Rick Barron]: parents who have a child, you know, that is, you know, divergent, if you
00:46:15,862 --> 00:46:20,705
[Rick Barron]: will. So I imagine there's a common ground there between, or common bond,
00:46:20,725 --> 00:46:24,267
[Rick Barron]: excuse me, between you that you can, there's a lot you can share
00:46:24,663 --> 00:46:24,952
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:46:24,788 --> 00:46:29,131
[Rick Barron]: with one another. And I think when they hear it from you, it's just really,
00:46:30,111 --> 00:46:34,802
[Rick Barron]: you know, here's someone who understands. And so I'm sure those conversations
00:46:34,842 --> 00:46:39,926
[Rick Barron]: have been very, not only beneficial to the person that you're talking to, but for
00:46:39,966 --> 00:46:44,889
[Rick Barron]: you, because I'm sure it gives you inner strength to, to know there are other
00:46:44,909 --> 00:46:49,332
[Rick Barron]: people out there who are also dealing with, you know, the same issue, if
00:46:49,352 --> 00:46:49,632
[Rick Barron]: you will.
00:46:50,526 --> 00:46:57,989
[Shelley]: Yeah, it's, I work, so I hold two support parents, support groups per month.
00:46:58,491 --> 00:46:58,638
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:46:59,370 --> 00:47:05,132
[Shelley]: We actually, so some of the parents are, do have children that are neurodivergent,
00:47:06,673 --> 00:47:14,417
[Shelley]: all different issues. Some parents have children that are transitioning to another
00:47:14,577 --> 00:47:25,003
[Shelley]: gender. Some are dealing with children that have, maybe addiction issues or co-dependency
00:47:25,063 --> 00:47:30,326
[Shelley]: issues. And so again, like I'm not here as a therapist, I'm just here to hold
00:47:30,406 --> 00:47:30,947
[Shelley]: space
00:47:31,453 --> 00:47:31,684
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:47:32,147 --> 00:47:37,511
[Shelley]: and use. So what we do is we meditate together, I guide everyone in the meditation,
00:47:37,531 --> 00:47:41,313
[Shelley]: and then we check, have like a two minute, everybody does a two minute check in
00:47:41,354 --> 00:47:43,855
[Shelley]: like how they're feeling in that moment. So again,
00:47:43,712 --> 00:47:43,835
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:47:43,875 --> 00:47:51,040
[Shelley]: we're in the present moment. And then we read a teaching from Ram Dass, about
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,463
[Shelley]: parenting or relationships and use other spiritual teachers. We will read a passage
00:47:55,503 --> 00:47:57,205
[Shelley]: that I curate
00:47:56,921 --> 00:47:57,251
[Rick Barron]: Right.
00:47:57,325 --> 00:48:03,810
[Shelley]: and then we'll talk about them and say how can we use this passage to be better
00:48:03,850 --> 00:48:09,354
[Shelley]: parents and to accept our children as they are and with unconditional love and
00:48:09,414 --> 00:48:10,315
[Shelley]: not with
00:48:10,226 --> 00:48:10,478
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:48:10,335 --> 00:48:13,897
[Shelley]: these expectations that we place upon them.
00:48:13,969 --> 00:48:18,551
[Rick Barron]: Those have those I would imagine those types of sessions are very some very
00:48:18,631 --> 00:48:19,932
[Rick Barron]: heavy conversations
00:48:20,437 --> 00:48:20,746
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:48:20,452 --> 00:48:25,055
[Rick Barron]: and very I would imagine very emotional conversations
00:48:24,542 --> 00:48:25,186
[Shelley]: It can be.
00:48:25,115 --> 00:48:25,255
[Rick Barron]: and
00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:26,131
[Shelley]: Yeah.
00:48:26,476 --> 00:48:32,899
[Rick Barron]: it's I'm sure there's a strength building and there's emotional building and
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:39,323
[Rick Barron]: you know I can't imagine what it must feel like I can I can try but just
00:48:39,863 --> 00:48:44,597
[Rick Barron]: knowing what you know you and you have to think about this, at least you're
00:48:44,617 --> 00:48:47,739
[Rick Barron]: there to help them because,
00:48:47,427 --> 00:48:47,591
[Shelley]: Mm-hmm.
00:48:47,879 --> 00:48:51,842
[Rick Barron]: you know, it's an outlet for them. Say, look, here's someone I can talk
00:48:51,882 --> 00:48:53,883
[Rick Barron]: to. They understand my world.
00:48:54,464 --> 00:48:54,794
[Shelley]: night.
00:48:55,164 --> 00:49:00,827
[Rick Barron]: So I think that is of a huge benefit to them and I think it has to give
00:49:00,867 --> 00:49:02,528
[Rick Barron]: you a lot of gratification.
00:49:03,550 --> 00:49:09,312
[Shelley]: Yeah, it's really, it's a really beautiful heart space experience that we all,
00:49:09,692 --> 00:49:13,273
[Shelley]: we barely know each other, but we get, I don't know, there's something that happens
00:49:13,293 --> 00:49:16,634
[Shelley]: that we just get right to the heart of it all very quickly
00:49:15,965 --> 00:49:16,175
[Rick Barron]: Sure.
00:49:17,235 --> 00:49:21,216
[Shelley]: and it's not a like, stitch and bitch session, you know?
00:49:21,294 --> 00:49:21,636
[Rick Barron]: Hahaha
00:49:21,556 --> 00:49:27,269
[Shelley]: It's not, it's not like it's a, you know... We just, we've come away, I know that
00:49:27,369 --> 00:49:33,200
[Shelley]: everyone, we all come away feeling supported and seen and validated.
00:49:33,705 --> 00:49:42,450
[Rick Barron]: Sure. Do you periodically get any emails or letters, if you will, from people
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:48,253
[Rick Barron]: who have attended your sessions and say, hey, Shelley, I was in your class
00:49:48,273 --> 00:49:54,277
[Rick Barron]: about a year ago or whatever, and what I learned from you has been extremely
00:49:54,337 --> 00:49:57,879
[Rick Barron]: helpful for me. I mean, those are my words, but do you ever get that type
00:49:57,939 --> 00:49:59,720
[Rick Barron]: of feedback from people like you?
00:50:00,546 --> 00:50:06,187
[Shelley]: Yeah, I can read one of my testimonials actually from one of the parents that I've
00:50:06,207 --> 00:50:06,427
[Shelley]: been
00:50:06,351 --> 00:50:06,557
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:50:06,607 --> 00:50:13,349
[Shelley]: working with. He said that as a divorced parent struggling to raise a transgendered
00:50:13,709 --> 00:50:14,770
[Shelley]: adolescent in a
00:50:15,025 --> 00:50:15,193
[Rick Barron]: Mm-hmm.
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:22,712
[Shelley]: more awakened loving way, Shelley's co-facilitation of the parent sangha has brought
00:50:22,752 --> 00:50:26,893
[Shelley]: me the emotional support that I need to keep going but also the spiritual guidance
00:50:26,933 --> 00:50:29,950
[Shelley]: to find some direction on the path. And
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:29,712
[Rick Barron]: Oh.
00:50:30,930 --> 00:50:36,774
[Shelley]: so when then other people have said stuff like, taking time to meditate with me
00:50:36,834 --> 00:50:41,937
[Shelley]: has helped people help me let go of some of my worries and to be more accepting
00:50:42,497 --> 00:50:45,319
[Shelley]: of reality. So things like
00:50:44,179 --> 00:50:44,431
[Rick Barron]: Yeah.
00:50:45,379 --> 00:50:50,262
[Shelley]: that. So yeah, I'm super grateful that, and then people can meditate with me
00:50:50,342 --> 00:50:54,805
[Shelley]: any time on the, I have recordings on the Insight Timer app.
00:50:55,844 --> 00:50:56,049
[Rick Barron]: Okay.
00:50:56,973 --> 00:50:59,323
[Shelley]: so people can find me there and
00:50:59,557 --> 00:50:59,797
[Rick Barron]: So
00:50:59,584 --> 00:50:59,965
[Shelley]: listen to
00:50:59,957 --> 00:51:00,217
[Rick Barron]: when
00:51:00,206 --> 00:51:00,447
[Shelley]: free
00:51:00,277 --> 00:51:01,998
[Rick Barron]: we
00:51:00,487 --> 00:51:01,090
[Shelley]: recordings.
00:51:02,018 --> 00:51:07,441
[Rick Barron]: get this podcast ready to roll, I guess people can go to your website to get
00:51:07,501 --> 00:51:11,603
[Rick Barron]: information of how to get in contact with you and find out about courses
00:51:11,664 --> 00:51:13,585
[Rick Barron]: you provide or,
00:51:13,654 --> 00:51:14,590
[Shelley]: Yeah, yeah.
00:51:14,445 --> 00:51:20,228
[Rick Barron]: okay. That'd be great. So we've covered a lot of ground here. And this has
00:51:20,268 --> 00:51:25,572
[Rick Barron]: been, at least for me, it's been very enlightening because you share things
00:51:25,792 --> 00:51:30,817
[Rick Barron]: with me I never really knew. about meditation. And when I did my research,
00:51:31,538 --> 00:51:38,139
[Rick Barron]: I also found information that gave me an eye opener like, okay, this isn't
00:51:38,179 --> 00:51:45,362
[Rick Barron]: just a fluke. There's something here. And if you take the time like you say
00:51:45,402 --> 00:51:52,604
[Rick Barron]: to listen, listen with your heart, you will find that you're going to be better
00:51:52,684 --> 00:51:56,553
[Rick Barron]: off for it in the long run. It's almost like you're Take the time to smell the
00:51:56,573 --> 00:52:02,515
[Rick Barron]: flowers, so to speak, and don't worry about the small little things that would
00:52:02,555 --> 00:52:04,596
[Rick Barron]: get you upset. It's just not
worth it.
00:52:05,347 --> 00:52:05,488
[Shelley]: Great.
00:52:05,916 --> 00:52:11,378
[Rick Barron]: With what time we have in our lives, I mean, it could go at any minute. So
00:52:12,158 --> 00:52:18,440
[Rick Barron]: you've gotta live the time that you have and live it to fulfill it. If you
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:24,642
[Rick Barron]: had... A final thought that you would love to leave with the audience when
00:52:24,662 --> 00:52:28,452
[Rick Barron]: they walk away from our discussion today. What would that be?
00:52:30,035 --> 00:52:34,968
[Shelley]: that meditation is a practice and it's something you can start over again and
00:52:35,008 --> 00:52:35,329
[Shelley]: again.
00:52:37,769 --> 00:52:43,811
[Rick Barron]: Good, I like that. So listen, it's been great talking with you. Again, I've
00:52:43,831 --> 00:52:47,873
[Rick Barron]: been looking forward to having you on my show so we could talk about this.
00:52:48,753 --> 00:52:52,034
[Rick Barron]: And again, I think you've offered a lot of insight and I think people are gonna
00:52:52,054 --> 00:52:56,176
[Rick Barron]: enjoy going to your blog site and your website to get additional information.
00:52:57,037 --> 00:53:02,099
[Rick Barron]: So for that, I'm gonna say, well, there you go, my friends. That's life, I swear.
00:53:02,879 --> 00:53:07,253
[Rick Barron]: For further information regarding the material covered in this episode. I invite
00:53:07,273 --> 00:53:12,759
[Rick Barron]: you to my website that you can find on either Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts
00:53:12,859 --> 00:53:17,003
[Rick Barron]: for show notes, calling out key pieces of content mentioned, and the episode
00:53:17,043 --> 00:53:22,068
[Rick Barron]: transcript. As always, I thank you for listening. Be sure to subscribe here
00:53:22,629 --> 00:53:26,092
[Rick Barron]: or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss an episode. See you soon!